7-21-25 Public Works — Minutes

Public Works Committee Minutes July 21, 2025 Members present: Dan Olson, Todd Klahn, Jacob Bachim, Public Works Director Leif Spilde, Assistant Public Works Director Brian Roberts, Jon Solan from Stand, and Jason Marshall. Olson called the meeting to order at 6 pm. Klahn made a motion to approve the minutes from 6/16/25. Bachim seconded the motion. Discussion. Vote taken; motion carried. Hotel St. Project – Solan from Strand started the discussion about the ramp. On Hotel St. there is an area that is in question with things that are potentially called flat. Solan has gone out there and gone through the area to try to replicate the flat area in question but has been unable to replicate or find it. This other area is going to be flatter. The sidewalk section is only allowed 2% which is flat. We can’t go 2% because a few years ago we had to drop our standards to 1 ½% to meet standards. We had to drop it to 1- 1/2 because its flat over there because that is the high point of the road, and we had to raise the roadway up because then it was close to the correct level with the front entrance of the bar. The road is sloped both ways. So high point is +or- 20 ft, is going to be the entrance of the bar, and then the flow away will be going either toward N.Rutland or Hwy 92. That section of sidewalk is flatter too because you are higher up by tying into the bar entrance and tying into the alleyway. It is flatter and he hasn’t been able to replicate the exact spot. But like you said that anything in that 1% is really flat and that is what sidewalks are. Klahn says that his concern is that Marshall took water and poured it there and it does drain but it also pools, so my concern is that the melting of the snow in the winter time and the drainage across it since it is the north side of the building. How do we address the ice? Solan said with the ice, even if we were closer to the 2% which would be the max through there, he just thinks that with the nature of it being a north facing building and having the roof draining to the alleyway and it comes out there. The ice is going to be there. You are just going to have to salt. I know that is not a great answer. Anywhere you have a north facing building and sidewalks, even if the sidewalks are at 2%, they still have to salt in certain conditions. The hope was that you have those downspout drains and there are no gutters currently, but I do hope that if we could ever get gutters and to get that underground to that grate that would help. Klahn said that Marshall said it is in the works to get the gutters on. Solan said that grate that is there is to get the downspouts under the sidewalk for drainage. We were hoping to use that and the surface water would then be draining into the alley. The low spot of the whole area is closer to the front of the old Mortensen garage and that is what you are seeing where you are seeing that come out . Klahn said it appears that slowly worked its way into the building during the last rain. Solan said it is flat. He’s limited on certain things that we can do to the roadway with it draining east and west and the area being flat. Marshall asked how do you get by with 2% on the last three feet, is that not public sidewalk where you can do that. Solan said you can on this last section be more than 2%. The problem is with the other section, that first 10 feet section has to be flat, and by the time it’s there the water is pooling and no one should be walking there. Marshall said I get what you are saying. I guess my only opinion is that it looks like a bunch of ten year olds poured that concrete. The problem is we can dump water there and it is running the seams - it’s higher. We’ve talked to a couple of concrete guys and instead of -- started at the buildings and pull out so you don’t get them humps. Every time they poured they enter first then they got a hump and then the water is running down and allowing the water to pool. If they would have poured it all at one time, then that would definitely eliminate some of that problem. Solan said the problem with that is you don’t see companies doing that, especially on a roadway project. They are always poured in sections, because if it is too big, then they can’t get a good straight line. In this specific area everything is flat so it works out nice, but if we get farther down towards State Hwy 92 or we get those grade breaks, you don’t get that crisp break at those edges so I would say what you said is what is used more in a residential area. There are tolerances on pours and grade but with a flat surface it is different. Marshall said it take very little tolerance in that spot even if you don’t pour it that way. Is that some thing that can be repoured maybe so that the water can be pitched off there. I don’t think that in the winter -- I guess, what are we going to do about the cement in between the two buildings that they tore out and that was supposed to pitch into the drain and they repoured it the same as what it was. In the summer time it ain’t so bad that water pools there and dries up. The winter time with the snow melting off the roof, I don’t know if evestroughs would work. I know when we met that day that was the whole thing, was to tear that out and pitch it into there and we got pictures where its coming out into the center and on the other side, which is not really acceptable. We discussed that from day one. Solan said if you want to pick up that water, there could be an option to run like a parallel drain there and tying that in. I think what is tough is that when they got into that and realized how flat it is back there and everything wanted to go this way. There wasn’t enough fall to fight it back. Honestly, we talked about that drain, and in a perfect world if there was more fall to get it over, but that would have meant pouring it this way then having to chase it back, and then we would have had a break like on this subconcrete that was there and it wouldn’t have lined up. I do remember talking about that, but there just wasn’t enough pitch. And again, that water coming out and that drain again was not the intention. If you didn’t tell us you were going to put in a down spout, we would not have put that drain in. Those are primarily for, I am going to have a lot of water coming through a downspout. We wouldn’t have put that in. Marshall said when we had our first meeting I was very, very adamant about that, and I going through a lawsuit for two years in the same situation. So I was very adamant about that from day one, about the handicapped and the drain between those two buildings. Summer time is not an issue. It is the winter time and it’s going to come out and it is going to pool. It’s worse now than it was before. It never got addressed going into this project. We knew that was a problem before this project started and we called everyone out on this before the curb was even poured as to what we can do to fix this. The engineer, you and Leif were there and you all said we are going to make this work. Solan what would make this work is to get the water out and getting it to the drain. I’m just looking at what was there before and what was poured and the line is close. Marshall said and we said we were going to make this work and here we are now, and after a couple meetings before the project started and the sidewalk and road was poured now after all this ain’t gonna work and now it’s not working. The problem is with part of the sidewalk being my ownership, when that drains off of there who are they coming after, they are going to come after me. Klahn said the question we have this drain here, would it make sense to put a drain in here. Solan said that is what I was saying is one of the possibilities that we could do. Klahn that would pick up that water, and if you drop the eves into there. Solan said I do remember that when we started I was hoping we could get it over there, but it was pitch like this and it didn’t go that way and there is no pitch on that alley, because we chased it back farther than we wanted to. Marshall said the alley has pitch and the water runs out perfect, except the section that you guys just repoured. Now there is a pool of water that sits inside. It used to drain beautiful out of there except for the last 5 feet that they did and now there’s a pool of water that sits in there. It needs to get redone. Olson said we are going to limit comments, because there are no comments on the agenda. Solan said lets talk about this item here – if it’s flat and or holding water. The other things we are fighting we have tried to make several folks happy and have listened to what you have said and we have eliminated the step as you wanted and we have repoured this twice to get it to the way you wanted. Marshall started to comment and Solan asked to have comments limited. Olson tapped the table and Marshall said to Olson to stop. Olson said to Marshall to limit comments otherwise he could leave. Solan said that we have tried to accommodate a lot of people’s interests on this project. One of the things that happened is with this driveway opening there in front of the old Mortensen building and they didn’t want it anymore, so he agreed at one of the public informational meeting to go ahead and eliminate it. That curb cut may have been one of the things that had helped in the past because it was lower. So we eliminated the driveway because the owner didn't want it anymore and there is no need to have a pedestrian ramp. What I think would help would to be to put like a loading ramp to the alley. We are not going to put domes or advertise that this is a pedestrian walking ramp to the alley. We are going to put that in and all these stones in red. We could lower and we could get 5-6 inches of curb head to play this way, because we can do that. 2% limits us from walking left or right and steeper down, so if we did this and it is pooling up here in the alley, we chase that back to pitch that to the street. That is an option that would solve this. I know there was talk about getting back to the alley, but I don’t think we are going to fight that because the low point is way over here. You’re not going to be able to force it back this way, even running a drain across. I would worry that even in the winter if it freezes in the winter and gets covered in grit and snow and stuff is thawing, you are still going to have stuff over the surface even if we wanted to make it steeper. Klahn said so what you are saying is because of this ramp, we can not change the slope side to side in the sidewalk but we can pitch the sidewalk this way. Solan said yes, so these stones would be the same but the grade would be lower and then this area would be lower and then have this area lower to the building and this may have been due to the curb opening that was there. Klahn said basically we would not know the cost of that until we get a contractor that can give a cost. I’m going to push on Leif, maybe the village can rent a jackhammer or the skidsteer to tear that out to save us a little bit and just work with getting prices from a contractor to pour that in there. That should limit our exposure to cost and it’s something that the guys can do, because we give you the equipment so I expect you to use it. Roberts said if it doesn’t break; there is nowhere for that to expand right there. Klahn said you have to bust it up first and you will have to cut it, otherwise you will break it. Spilde said as far as this project goes the contractor is still liable for this and we have already requested a price from Speedway to do this and to see where they come in. If there is the ability to try and save money, we will. Solan said we should have the price in a couple of days. Klahn said it’s a lot more money, but it’s a better option than the drain because it is going to be flat in there and you are going to get the buildup. Solan said you could even run some type of wire or heat tape to heat that up. Marshall, can I ask a couple of questions then I will head out. Klahn said okay. Marshall asked can we put in a wider drain in there to catch some of that because winter time is the problem. You know, put something to get more pitch on it to help with the melting of the snow. Bachim said so replace the existing drain? Marshall said yes, with one that is twice as wide. You see that in Madison a lot, so if you get that run off. I don’t even know if that would work on that building with the ice, the melting. Bachim said because of the slow pitch. Marshall, yes, it freezes up a lot. It’s a constant melt and thaw. No matter what we do out here we have to run heat tape and whatever. I know that is what they do in Madison. I’m just wondering if that’s all going to come out if we could put a 2 ft wide one in. Klahn asked price. Solan said this plan is to stopping it at that. That would jack up the price a lot more. I really do think if we cut this in, we will max out the grade and that water. The problem is if we get a bigger grate, it will still be subject to freezing up. If we get these to be an inch per drop per stone instead of a quarter and get a lot more fall to get all that melted out of there, so its not just crawling out of there and getting as much pitch as we can. These grates are made for downspouts rather than to get a mass amount of water out. So if we were trying to get that out from the alleyway, I would say your better option would be to try to get an opening to get more pitch and to get that sidewalk out to the road as fast as you can. Marshall asked what are the ones that you see in Madison that are really wide where they drain water out like that. Solan said he’s not quite sure; are they in the sidewalk or curbhead? Marshall said they are right in the sidewalk. He plows snow right over them. They are metal grates and drains underneath them. Solan said he’s not sure and would need a picture. Marshall said he doesn't mean to but we are in a lawsuit right and what you want to do is put that swale in the -- because if you go up by the Great Dane -- I’m sorry, I know I’m not suppose to be talking. They have the same thing and the same drain problem and there’s always slips and falls. Same scenario north side of the building. Even if we have to modify, can we build a box that wide and put it in the curb. My question is to members on the board, why is anyone concerned about prices for doing this. You guys paid for it once. The village paid for an engineer to design this and it was brought up from the get-go. It’s not right. Why should the village have to pay for tearing out and repouring of concrete. You guys give that some thought. Thank you. Sorry, Dan. Olson said we just didn’t have public comments. Marshall said it’s a huge deal because it’s a safety thing, just because he’s going through a suit and he tried to address this from day one and all the way through this and everybody says its going to work and here we are and putting that swale in there. I’m fine with cost sharing a little bit. Hell, we will donate a big box, whatever is legal for us to build to put in that sidewalk to pitch the underground just like to get it done. I’m sick and tired of being told that it’s going to work and here we are. I don’t want you to have somebody slip and fall. The problem of what it did before it was black ice, and salt ain’t going to be the answer. We need to hold some of these people that do this to some standards. Thanks guys. I think -- I didn’t need to blow up at anybody. Solan said he can’t find any pitch, and Solan didn’t go back into his alley because he has been a little aggressive, so he’s staying away and it is private property. It does have a pitch from what he can see. Even if we were super, he is still going to have to salt and still going to have black ice. He spoke with Josh Straka and you are going to have those type of problems anywhere in town and you are still going to have to salt it. As he said, there was black ice there before but this now is drastically flatter than it was before. I think that with the driveway opening there it drained, but he didn’t want it anymore. Spilde said the reason that it is high so he didn’t want to have to have a handicapped ramp going into the bar. That is the way he designed it that way, and it isn’t true that we didn’t do anything for him. Solan said we are fighting pretty hard to come back from that because there was a big step (6 ½ - 7 inch step) in the front. We poured it twice and Speedway didn’t even charge for that. He told them where he wanted it and pro bono Speedway tore it out and re- poured it and never provided a change order for it. Spilde said the chalk line Marshall put in is still there where he had placed it. Klahn said he’s coming in in the middle of this and wanted to hear both sides before he made an opinion. I kinda like this idea. I don’t like the extra cost. Spilde said he can address this because they have done such a good job on extras that we are nowhere near the 10% we figured in there, so there is a couple of things we are going to address (we are only at $10,000) but the money is there in the loan. Klahn said just because the money is there, he doesn’t want to have to spend it. He likes to have to make people work as much as he can. Spilde said we are going to want to have professionals do the work, just because of everything that we have already been through. Bachim said with the liability, extra salt at the north side of the building. We have to always salt. Bachim said as long as we do everything that we can, because if there is a slip and fall this is brand new and there will be a finger pointing chain that happens, and as long as we have mitigated it is all we can do. Olson said it’s not any different than if it is the sidewalk in front of someone’s residence. You have a certain amount of time with inclement weather to clear your sidewalks. Klahn said are we going to make recommendations to the board? Spilde said it’s up to you, and there are a few other items that he wants to throw out there so that we can cover it all at once with the board. So is this what you want to try or do you want to wait. Olson said do you want to look into one of the grates that he mentioned? Klahn said as long as the smaller one is working, what is the point of having the wider one. Spilde said the eavestrough isn’t in there. Klahn said he assumed you designed it to handle the run off. Solan said yes, that’s the product (4 inch) and that would handle the run off, and he has two of them, one on each side. We would hope that with the V-shaped roof, he would use both of them. Klahn said if this was overloaded, he would understand it, but we don’t know that it is, and having a wider one isn’t going to help if its going to freeze up anyway. Solan said that’s why you can’t fight gravity. If we could get a couple more inches for fall, we don't have storm sewer on the street and the tie-in was a way away. Discussion about the Madison storm sewer grates are not a sidewalk grate. Discussion about sloping and making it more of a slipping hazard. Klahn asked, can we grind a 6-inch section smooth? Solan said he’s not sure where the flat spot is, how much is pooling. Klahn explained that the pooling isn’t deep. The only concern would be during winter time. Olson said you are trying to match concrete up to different heights of buildings and you need try to compromise, and from the looks, the compromise is going to have to be where this gate is. If this were new buildings that were the same height, it would work. Bachim said so there was water in Mortensen’s building. Klahn said yes, that was what was reported to me. Bachim said so the benefits of this slight slope would help get this water away from Mortensen’s building. Do we want to go one square over to the door and to the east? Discussion about the corners and that it would benefit both property owners, and the water from Mortensen’s old roof runs off to the back, and discussion about the angle of the roof and needed gutters and direction of the gutters for water flow on the Anchor Club and discussion about 5-inch gutters and the need to split so that it doesn’t overload the downspout, Bachim thinks it’s beneficial to do this project. Spilde said if we do all this, will Marshall be happy with it even if we do a bigger drain, and does he think that alley will drain, because there are two issues -- drain and alley. Klahn asked if this is going to fix the alley. Spilde if this is, he wants Marshall to say that. Solan said we were fighting grades just trying to bring everything up so he could get rid of that step. Spilde said they did a really good job engaging him and meeting with him super early to go over this design multiple times and reiterating to him that if we get rid of the step, it’s going to make some things flatter. If we would have left the step, this wouldn’t have been a problem. Spilde commented on the grass area between Mortensen’s building – grass versus concrete, several different opinions. Klahn prefers concrete. Bachim asked are they trying to put snow there. Spilde said there is blacktop damage to be repaired, black marks on concrete, Alliant owned the street lights and they would have preferred better post, one way was voted on what residents wanted, and the parking stalls to west and east of residential driveway. Discussion about parking stalls, one-way street going back to two-way, painting curb yellow, clerk’s office to contact both Seitler and Simpson to attend next board meeting to voice their opinions so they’re stated on record. When we are talking to these people, we need to have this stuff in writing, because they keep telling everyone different things. Klahn made a motion to recommend concrete cutout for the loading area and parking stall and painting the curb areas discussed yellow and adding one more stall on the other side of the road and getting rid of the one-way back to a two-way street. Bachim seconded. Discussion. Vote taken; motion carried. Spilde will contact clerk’s office to contact the property owners to attend the board meeting. Klahn understands that this isn’t going to fix all of the issues but is the best solution for now. Sidewalks – Solan provided an overview of the past design. Boots on the ground study was from 20 years ago. Google maps now has high details. He put together description about how much sidewalks you have and a desk top analysis of what the conditions are. It would be a multi- year plan to have reasonable size projects. There are seven different areas of sidewalks. North end of town is good but ramps are due to change. Other areas, South Rutland is worst shape, and needs a full reconstruction, but when is 104 going to get done. Construction costs would be a lot of labor for engineering to do measurements, etc. Highway 104, the last thing from commission talked about 2030-2031. They would hate to have the sidewalks done now and then the highway project comes through and raises the road and we have to redo the sidewalks again and charge the residents twice for sidewalks. Yes, S. Rutland is one of the worst sidewalk areas in town at this point. Might have to take to Finance committee. Klahn said he memory was to want to get it fixed. Estimated construction assessment is $45,000. That is the whole cost, not individual homeowners. Start by the school as the other area to look at working on. Review of costs of each area and the village would pay up front and the homeowners would then pay. If we wanted to upgrade the plan, we would have to have an RFQ for plans and the study which is $2500 to $7500. It depends on what you want included and what the narrative is, between $20,000 and $100,000 per year for each project. This was just informational. They want to know more as to when Highway 104 is going to be done. They do not anticipate going forward until we know more about the sewer plant Business Park & Highway 92 – There is an accepted offer. There is an open contract with Fischer and they haven’t finished yet. Lead time issues with pouring concrete and come back and reseed. Final pay request will still have one more. They just finished late May, early June and now just getting bill. They are still being held accountable for the punch list items. Traffic analysis – we received conditional approval a few weeks ago, and they need to add a few more things to submit some charts, and they sent back this week. We should be hearing back soon. Access alignment up with King Lake and no bypass lanes. Budget – Review of handouts. Signs, loader maintenance have maxed out for the year. We have been cutting here and there. We are running out of dollars. Loader maintenance is due to unexpected expense repairs. Look at taking some out of oil. we buy oil at end of year for next year. It’s cheaper to due maintenance now. Klahn said if it needs maintenance, it is cheaper to maintain than having to buy new. Do the maintenance and let the board worry about the budget. Legion Park & Water Tower Parks – Fences, review of areas. They need 150 ft for chain link fence, about $5,000, for water tower park. Sills contacted public works about Legion Park fence stopped at the 208 Railroad property and asked if they can extend the fence 300 feet, would be about $10,000. Can use park funds. With new house, the water tower fence is a must. We can request the other fence for next year’s budget. Water tower slopes and there is a retaining wall by made of rock. Klahn made a motion recommend that Spilde get quotes to bring to board for approval. Bachim seconded. Discussion. Vote taken; motion carried. Legion Park can wait. Sills will need to put a request into the board for continuation of fence. Well #1 Roof – Needs replacement. Bachim suggested getting rid of flat roof. The foam system will help pitch water to come off. He will help write an RFQ for the roof. Spilde will contact the company that worked on Village Hall and then get bid specs and then take to board. Sale of 2022 F150 at WI Surplus – with the policy in place he needs approval to sell old 150. Klahn made a motion to sell the F150. Bachim seconded. Discussion. Vote taken; motion carried. We paid $46,021.50 for the new truck. Public Works Report – water samples were taken and safe. Sewer – projects coming up. Info and needs for the next permit are going to be extensive -- chiller, temperature. They’re sampling zinc, and doing quarterly sampling at O&A because they use zinc. PFAS every other month testing. Emergency management – Thursday active shooter drill at the school. Streets and parks -- Legion Park vandalism, the police are working on it. Had complaints about semis parking on 1st and 4th Street. July 14 and 15 pumped pond. Charter had some scheduling issues and phone issues, but backup system is still working. Business park – Kevin Klahn combined the rye and then he will reseed and mow weeds for nothing. Olson said to thank Kevin for doing this. Next Meeting will be scheduled as needed. Klahn made a motion at 7:24 p.m. to adjourn. Bachim seconded. Vote taken; motion carried.